May 14, 2017
May 10, 2017
Always Want to Know
I always want to know just how many points that I have worth of Warhammer stuff. It's a question that gets asked, and it's a tricky one to answer because of a few things. The biggest thing is that I have enough models that a few of them can stand in and double as quite a few other things. The most basic example of that is something like chaos terminator lords, they can also be terminator sorcerers, or if I'm feeling it, I can have the terminator just be the unit champion. So right now I have two terminators that can be looked at like they're champions (purely because they're modeled a bit more impressively standing up on a stone) but the question at hand is what do I put them as a point cost? Do I make them a unit champion? Do I make them a terminator lord? Or do I use them as a terminator sorcerer? Even then with the later two, how much stuff do I give them? Do I count potential sorcerer levels and items?
With all of this complication in mind, we have to sort out just what I have in models, and then sort out points. Let's go through what's painted, and then we can worry about the point tally. Here's the break down by unit.
CSM - Marines
2 banners
heavy bolter
flamer
powerfist + plasma pistol
12 CCW + gun
13 bolter only
Cultists
6 w/ CCW + gun
2 flamers
1 big gun
1 champ with sword and shot gun
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines
19 regular
2 aspiring sorcerers
OR up to
5 aspiring sorcerers
16 regular
OR it can drop to
4 aspiring sorc
16 regular
and then upgrade the one sorcerer into an actual chaos sorcerer instead of the TS aspiring.
OR all things considering if we're going min/max of things, I have 16 rubrics that can't be anything else. If I'm feeling evil, that could be one unit of 16, with one aspiring sorcerer, and then four regular sorcerers running around doing whatever they want. This is where the options become a bit crazy, and the point cost for them becomes very fuzzy.
Heldrake - only have one, and it's got the flamer mouth weapon
2 Daemon Prince - Hanz and Franz (again the points that can be dropped into them is over the top)
Chaos Lord - Sword + Plasma pistol
Helbrute - multimelta - powerfist
Terminators -
Terminator Champion (or lord or sorcerer) - combi bolter - power staff
Terminator Champion (or lord or sorcerer) - combi bolter - chain fist
Terminator - combi bolter + power fist
Terminator - combi bolter + force axe
Terminator - combi bolter + force axe
Terminator - reaper autocannon -
Terminator - multi melta - maul
Terminator - melta - maul
Terminator - combi bolter - chain fist
Terminator - combi bolter - axe
Terminator combi bolter - axe
Terminator - combi flamer - maul
The difficult part with these guys as well is determining their shooting weapon. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time seeing the difference between a melta and a flamer. I'm working off of pictures at this point and I'm not sure if what is there is a flamer or a melta, so when in doubt if I couldn't tell for sure, I just put melta.
2 (almost 3) rhinos - again difficult because not sure if it's going to go bare bones, or if it's going to pick up all of the things to get all of the random bonuses.
1 Las cannon predator
5 warp talons
Now to sort out the math behind all of this.
Limited point cost list, just doing some basic body counts, not sorting out any special weapons or anything at all. This is literally the worst math I can throw at these things.
30 CSM = 450
Cultists = 50
Thousand Sons = 495
Heldrake = 170
2 daemon prince = 290
Chaos Lord = 65
Helbrute = 105
11 Terminators = 341
3 Rhino = 105
Predator = 140
5 Talons = 160
So, low ball of all low balls, I have 2,371 points.Note - that's no special weapons, no upgrades, no artifacts, so chaos marks, no bonus spell levels, and little to do with how they actually get plaid. We're going horribly wrong here and thinking that the worst case scenario this is how they could potentially get fielded if there was no understanding of the army.
To show just how bad of a level that is to even guess at point value, a Daemon Prince, has to have a mark, typically I'll give wings and armor as well, which increases the value of ONE of them to 220, two of them to 440, and that's still not counting magic and artifacts.
Hell, I think I even counted things wrong because I know that I have 33 CSM, not 30. I even forgot my maulerfiend!
Either way, let's dive in and try to real list this with more realistic point values behind everything.
CSM - 620
3 units of 11 each.
Unit 1 - Start (75) + 6 models @ 13pts (78) + Mark of Tzeentch (22) + icon of flame (15) = 190
Unit 2 - Start (75) + 6 models (78) + Tzeentch (22) + icon of flame (15) + champ with pistol and power fist (40) = 230
Unit 3 -Start (75) + 6 models (78) + Tzeentch (22) + plasma gun (15) + heavy bolter (10) = 200
Cultists - 112
Unit 1 - Start (50) + 6 models (24) + autogun (5) + 2 heavy stubber (10) + flamer (5) + champ with shotgun (2) + tzeentch (16) = 112 points
Thousand Sons - 663
3 Units
Unit 1- Start (150) + 1 more (23) + sorcer metla bomb (5) + rhino (35) = 213
Unit 2- Start (150) + 1 more (23) + sorcerer melta (5) + rhino (35) = 213
Unit 3- Start (150) + 2 more (46) + sorcerer melta (5) + rhino (35) = 236
Sorcerer - 165
Base (60) + 2 mastery (50) + spell familiar (15) + Tzeentch (15) + sigil of corruption (25) = 165
Helldrake - 170
Maulerfiend - 125
Helbrute - 105
11 Terminators - 455
2 units
Unit 1 - Start (95) - 3 more (93) - Tzeentch (30) - 2 chain fist (30) = 248
Unit 2 - Start (95) - 2 more (62) - Tzeentch (25) - Autocannon (25) = 207
Predator - 140
Talons - 160
Chaos Lord - 100
Start (65) - Tzeentch (15) - melta (5) - plasma pistol (15) = 100
Daemon Prince - 665
Hanz
Start (145) + Tzeentch (15) + 3 Mastery (75) + wings (40) + armour (20) + black mace (45) = 340
Franz
Start (145) + Tzeentch (15) + 3 Mastery (75) + wings (40) + armour (20) + burning brand (30) = 325
Total of a better guess = 3,480
Again, this could swing a few hundred points a few different ways depending on what I put on leaders, if I want more HQ or not, but that's about how I run my lists, and what I spec different models with. That's just close enough to say that I have about 3,500 points of Thousand Sons.
The really stupid/weird part about all of this is that I have about that many points to still construct or paint. The only catch to that is that out of that 3,500 points, I have Magnus at 650 points, 3 exalted sorcerers, 3 sorcerers on disk, and a daemon prince in that to do pile. It's easy to double your points when your to do pile is nothing but hyper overpowered (and high point cost ) HQ options.
With all of this complication in mind, we have to sort out just what I have in models, and then sort out points. Let's go through what's painted, and then we can worry about the point tally. Here's the break down by unit.
CSM - Marines
2 banners
heavy bolter
flamer
powerfist + plasma pistol
12 CCW + gun
13 bolter only
Cultists
6 w/ CCW + gun
2 flamers
1 big gun
1 champ with sword and shot gun
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines
19 regular
2 aspiring sorcerers
OR up to
5 aspiring sorcerers
16 regular
OR it can drop to
4 aspiring sorc
16 regular
and then upgrade the one sorcerer into an actual chaos sorcerer instead of the TS aspiring.
OR all things considering if we're going min/max of things, I have 16 rubrics that can't be anything else. If I'm feeling evil, that could be one unit of 16, with one aspiring sorcerer, and then four regular sorcerers running around doing whatever they want. This is where the options become a bit crazy, and the point cost for them becomes very fuzzy.
Heldrake - only have one, and it's got the flamer mouth weapon
2 Daemon Prince - Hanz and Franz (again the points that can be dropped into them is over the top)
Chaos Lord - Sword + Plasma pistol
Helbrute - multimelta - powerfist
Terminators -
Terminator Champion (or lord or sorcerer) - combi bolter - power staff
Terminator Champion (or lord or sorcerer) - combi bolter - chain fist
Terminator - combi bolter + power fist
Terminator - combi bolter + force axe
Terminator - combi bolter + force axe
Terminator - reaper autocannon -
Terminator - multi melta - maul
Terminator - melta - maul
Terminator - combi bolter - chain fist
Terminator - combi bolter - axe
Terminator combi bolter - axe
Terminator - combi flamer - maul
The difficult part with these guys as well is determining their shooting weapon. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time seeing the difference between a melta and a flamer. I'm working off of pictures at this point and I'm not sure if what is there is a flamer or a melta, so when in doubt if I couldn't tell for sure, I just put melta.
2 (almost 3) rhinos - again difficult because not sure if it's going to go bare bones, or if it's going to pick up all of the things to get all of the random bonuses.
1 Las cannon predator
5 warp talons
Now to sort out the math behind all of this.
Limited point cost list, just doing some basic body counts, not sorting out any special weapons or anything at all. This is literally the worst math I can throw at these things.
30 CSM = 450
Cultists = 50
Thousand Sons = 495
Heldrake = 170
2 daemon prince = 290
Chaos Lord = 65
Helbrute = 105
11 Terminators = 341
3 Rhino = 105
Predator = 140
5 Talons = 160
So, low ball of all low balls, I have 2,371 points.Note - that's no special weapons, no upgrades, no artifacts, so chaos marks, no bonus spell levels, and little to do with how they actually get plaid. We're going horribly wrong here and thinking that the worst case scenario this is how they could potentially get fielded if there was no understanding of the army.
To show just how bad of a level that is to even guess at point value, a Daemon Prince, has to have a mark, typically I'll give wings and armor as well, which increases the value of ONE of them to 220, two of them to 440, and that's still not counting magic and artifacts.
Hell, I think I even counted things wrong because I know that I have 33 CSM, not 30. I even forgot my maulerfiend!
Either way, let's dive in and try to real list this with more realistic point values behind everything.
CSM - 620
3 units of 11 each.
Unit 1 - Start (75) + 6 models @ 13pts (78) + Mark of Tzeentch (22) + icon of flame (15) = 190
Unit 2 - Start (75) + 6 models (78) + Tzeentch (22) + icon of flame (15) + champ with pistol and power fist (40) = 230
Unit 3 -Start (75) + 6 models (78) + Tzeentch (22) + plasma gun (15) + heavy bolter (10) = 200
Cultists - 112
Unit 1 - Start (50) + 6 models (24) + autogun (5) + 2 heavy stubber (10) + flamer (5) + champ with shotgun (2) + tzeentch (16) = 112 points
Thousand Sons - 663
3 Units
Unit 1- Start (150) + 1 more (23) + sorcer metla bomb (5) + rhino (35) = 213
Unit 2- Start (150) + 1 more (23) + sorcerer melta (5) + rhino (35) = 213
Unit 3- Start (150) + 2 more (46) + sorcerer melta (5) + rhino (35) = 236
Sorcerer - 165
Base (60) + 2 mastery (50) + spell familiar (15) + Tzeentch (15) + sigil of corruption (25) = 165
Helldrake - 170
Maulerfiend - 125
Helbrute - 105
11 Terminators - 455
2 units
Unit 1 - Start (95) - 3 more (93) - Tzeentch (30) - 2 chain fist (30) = 248
Unit 2 - Start (95) - 2 more (62) - Tzeentch (25) - Autocannon (25) = 207
Predator - 140
Talons - 160
Chaos Lord - 100
Start (65) - Tzeentch (15) - melta (5) - plasma pistol (15) = 100
Daemon Prince - 665
Hanz
Start (145) + Tzeentch (15) + 3 Mastery (75) + wings (40) + armour (20) + black mace (45) = 340
Franz
Start (145) + Tzeentch (15) + 3 Mastery (75) + wings (40) + armour (20) + burning brand (30) = 325
Total of a better guess = 3,480
Again, this could swing a few hundred points a few different ways depending on what I put on leaders, if I want more HQ or not, but that's about how I run my lists, and what I spec different models with. That's just close enough to say that I have about 3,500 points of Thousand Sons.
The really stupid/weird part about all of this is that I have about that many points to still construct or paint. The only catch to that is that out of that 3,500 points, I have Magnus at 650 points, 3 exalted sorcerers, 3 sorcerers on disk, and a daemon prince in that to do pile. It's easy to double your points when your to do pile is nothing but hyper overpowered (and high point cost ) HQ options.
May 6, 2017
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)